VENICE, Italy (AP) ā ā ā is a hard act to follow. Todd Phillipsā dark, Scorsese-inspired character study about the Batman villain made over a billion dollars at the box office, , dominated the cultural discourse for months and created a new movie landmark.
It wasnāt for everyone, but it got under peopleās skin.
Knowing that it was a foolās errand to try to do it again, Phillips and Phoenix pivoted, or rather, pirouetted into what would become ā .ā The dark and fantastical musical journey goes deeper into the mind of Arthur Fleck as he awaits trial for murder and falls in love with a fellow Arkham inmate, Lee, played by Lady Gaga. There is singing, dancing and mayhem.
If Phillips and Phoenix have learned anything over the years, itās that the scarier something is, the better. So once again they rebelled against expectations and went for broke with something thatās already sharply divided critics.
As with the first, audiences will get to decide for themselves when it opens in theaters on Oct. 4.
āHOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET JOAQUIN PHOENIX TO DO A SEQUEL?ā
Any comic book movie that makes a billion dollars is going to have the sequel talk. But with āJokerā it was never a given that it would go anywhere: Joaquin Phoenix doesnāt do sequels. Yet it turned out, Phoenix wasnāt quite done with Arthur Fleck yet either.
During the first, the actor wondered what this character would look like in different situations. He and the on-set photographer mocked up classic movie posters, like āOne Flew Over the Cuckooās Nestā and āYentlā with the Joker in them and showed them to Phillips.
āSometimes youāre just done with something and other times you have an ongoing interest,ā Phoenix said. āThere was just more to explore. ā¦ I just felt like we werenāt done.ā
So Phillips and his co-writer Scott Silver got to work on a new script, one that leaned into the music in Arthur Fleckās head. Then his dreary Arkham life turns to Technicolor when he meets and falls for Lee, a Joker superfan.
āJoaquin Phoenix is not going to do a line drive. Heās not going to do something thatās fan service,ā Phillips said. āHe wanted to be as scared as he was with the first movie. So, we tried to make something that is as audacious and out there and hopefully people get it.ā
LADY GAGA FINDS LEEāS VOICE, AND LOSES HER OWN
One decision thatās already sparking debate is casting someone with a voice like Lady Gagaās and not using that instrument to its full power. Phillips, who was a producer on āA Star is Born,ā wanted someone who ābrought music with them.ā But Lee isnāt a singer.
āSinging is so second nature to me, and making music and performing on stage is so inside of me. Especially this music,ā Gaga said. āI worked extensively on untraining myself for this movie and throwing away as much as I could all the time to make sure I was never locking into what I do. I had to really kind of erase it all.ā
Phoenix, who wasn't quite sure what it would be like working with someone who has such a larger-than-life superstar persona, found Gaga to be refreshingly unpretentious and available. And as an actor, he admired her commitment to the character.
āHer power is in singing and singing a particular way,ā he said. āFor her to sacrifice that through character, to do something that people would call a musical, but to not be performing it in the way that would sound best as a singer but to approach it from the character was a very difficult process. I was really impressed with her willingness to do that.ā
In addition to writing a āwaltz that falls apartā for the film, Gaga is releasing a companion album, āHarlequinā on Friday with song titles including āOh, When the Saints,ā āWorld on a String,ā āIf My Friends Could See Me Nowā and āThatās Life."
SORRY PUDDINā, THIS AINāT MARGOT ROBBIEāS HARLEY QUINN
Much like Phoenixās Joker isnāt Heath Ledgerās or Jack Nicholsonās, Gagaās Lee is not the
āWeāre never going to outdo what Margot Robbie did,ā Phillips said. āYou have to do something 180 degrees in the other direction.ā
Sure, Lee will still casually light something on fire to get some time alone with Joker, but the tumult is more internal. And Gaga threw herself into making Lee something new: A real person, grounded in a reality that came before her.
āI spent a lot of my time on developing her inner life (which) for me had a lot to do with her storm and what thing was always making her about to explode,ā Gaga said. āThereās a particular kind of danger that she carries with her, but itās inside and itās kind of explosive.ā
āDO YOU JUST WANT A BRUTE?ā
Brendan Gleeson didnāt have much hesitation about joining the ensemble. Heād worked with Phoenix before on āThe Villageā and was in awe of what heād done on the first movie.
āHe has an absolute relentless integrity and curiosity and drive,ā Gleeson said. āHe wonāt just plough the same furrow for its own sake.ā
But he also didnāt want to play the simple version of an Arkham prison guard.
āI said, look, do you just want a brute? Because Iām not sure I just want to do a brute,ā Gleeson said. āHe wanted something more. We tried to find layers in this guy.ā
CREATING MAYHEM
Anyone who has worked with Phoenix knows that he likes to keep things fresh. That may mean something as small as changing the location of a prop or as big as throwing out choreography that youāve been rehearsing for months at the last minute.
āI think we both love mayhem and not just in movies but on the set,ā Phillips said. āIt had to feel like anything can happen.ā
With the crew 95% the same as the first, everyone was ready to be flexible. Gaga, too, dove right in, suggesting that they sing live on camera.
āIt changed the whole making of the film,ā Phillips said. āWe were not only singing live, we were singing live differently every take.ā
THATāS ENTERTAINMENT?
Since Arthur killed Robert De Niroās talk show host Murray Franklin on live television in the first film, heās become a kind of icon and curiosity thanks in no small part to an oft referenced, but never seen, television movie that was made about him. Now, the trial is going to be televised as well.
āUnderneath it all, thereās this idea of corruption and how everything is corrupt in the system, from the prison system to the judicial system to the idea of entertainment, quite frankly,ā Phillips said. āThis idea that in the States at least, everything is entertainment. A court trial could be entertainment, and a presidential election can be entertainment. So, if thatās true, what is entertainment?ā
NO LONGER A COMPLETE WILD CARD
Itās easier to be to the insurgent, not the incumbent, Phillips said. Although a Joker film is never going to fly completely under the radar, the spotlight is undoubtedly more intense this time around.
āYou do feel like you have a larger target on your back,ā Phillips said.
While much of the film was made on Warner Bros. soundstages in Los Angeles, the production did go back to New York to film again on the Bronx staircase (which now come up on Google Maps as the Joker Stairs) and outside a Manhattan courthouse. The production staged a massive protest scene, with Gaga, almost concurrently with the as if there werenāt enough eyes on them already.
Some are also handwringing about the sequelās bigger budget and whether it can match the success of the first. But Phillips has learned to take it in stride.
āThereās a different amount of pressure, but that just comes with making movies,ā he said. āYou canāt please everybody and you just kind of go for it.ā
Gleeson has an even sunnier outlook.
āIt has kind of arthouse movie integrity on a blockbuster scale. Itās great news for cinema, is the way I look on it,ā Gleeson said. āIf these event movies can continue to have depth and can be so conflicting like this one, is we neednāt worry about the future of cinema.ā
SO, IS IT A MUSICAL?
One thing Phillips didnāt mean to do was ignite a discourse about what is and isnāt a musical. Heās just trying to manage expectations.
āPeople go, āwhat do you mean itās not a musical?ā And it is a musical. It has all the elements of a musical. But I guess what I mean by it is all the musicals Iāve seen leave me happy at the end for the most part, āUmbrellas of Cherbourgā not being one of them. This has so much sadness in it that I just didnāt want to be misleading to people.ā
Lindsey Bahr, The Associated Press
